Mixing East & West In Midlife

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:00:00) - For so long. It was like self-loathing misogyny to not embrace my own intuition. I didn't want to be seen as irrational. I didn't even want to see myself that way. And now I finally reconnected to my intuition. I realized it's this compass that offers so much value.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:00:20) - Hey peeps, welcome to the Flexible Neurotic Podcast. I'm your host, doctor Sarah Milken. Yeah, you heard that right. I'm a real PhD doctor. Long, long ago, like last fucking year, I was sitting in the midlife funk wondering, was this it for me? That day, I realized I needed to get off my ass and start my midlife remix. I dusted off my PhD, wiped the menopause sweat off my forehead, grabbed my golden shit shovel, and started digging deep to all my midlife bitches. It's not just luck, coffee, and hormones that get you through your midlife remix. It's action steps. Let's do this. Hi peeps, it's me, Doctor Sarah Malkin with the Flexible Neurotic podcast, The Midlife Self Reinvention Podcast, where we talk about all the inspiring Uggs and fabulosity of midlife.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:01:15) - This is a new golden nugget mini sode of my podcast, where I go back to some of my best episodes and remind all of us about some of the fabulous and important golden nuggets that we dug up and may have forgotten. Yeah, you heard me right. I'm going into my midlife library of old episodes and bringing you golden nuggets about midlife motivation, empty nesting, health and wellness, all the things. Flexible, neurotic style. Okay, so today's a golden nugget from the flexible, neurotic archive. A little dose of no pun intended of midlife woo woo from a very well-studied, super credible board certified psychiatrist who practices a holistic approach to mental health, and she is certified in acupuncture, yoga and nutrition. I know it's a lot, and she's that amazing. Her name is Doctor Ellen Vohra. She specializes in depression, insomnia, anxiety, autoimmunity, adult ADHD, bipolar, and digestive issues, so she's pretty much everything you would want to know about midlife and beyond. This was such a requested topic, so don't forget to check out the full episode called Plant Medicine, sleep, and Gut Tools Finding Your Midlife Low, which is also linked in the show notes.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:02:26) - Today, we're talking about all plant medicine and Ellen's specific and holistic approach to taking care of your mental health in today's developing world of medicine and lifestyle, which is not one size fits all, this golden nugget is about understanding all your options and using your intuition to guide you to the best solution for you. So let's get into the episode. Okay, so you took Western medicine and then you got trained in a million other things that are sort of more in the eastern part of like acupuncture and nutrition and yoga, and you checked all of your certification boxes because you're probably a huge nerd like I am. Yeah. And you wanted to feel like you had all of that. And so I've heard you say that some of this is like intuition, witchcraft mixed with obviously Western medicine. Like, what does that mean?

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:03:19) - Yeah, that I think I'm glad that I have that sort of foundation of conventional medical training, med school and residency. I'm glad that I think it did give me a lot of understanding of the mechanics of the body about what's possible, but how to think about epidemiology and biostatistics.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:03:37) - And honestly, some of the biggest things that it's offered is that it has allowed me to talk the talk and kind of like be able to talk in that way that legitimizes your case. But then also,, gives me this weird authority to be able to say we don't have it completely right. And the fact of the matter is, natural paths, Chinese medicine practitioners, health coaches, like they all see what I see. They have the exact same insight. But having that MD after my name for some reason helps people. It makes it a more credible statement because I'm kind of like saying it from the inside. And I think, you know, I think my role in this is to be somewhat of a bridge and so I'm glad, I guess, that I went through ten years of soul crushing training. But at this point I really, each passing year let my freak flag fly more and more. Yeah. And for so long it was like self-loathing misogyny to not embrace my own intuition. I didn't want to be seen as irrational.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:04:37) - I didn't even want to see myself that way. And now I finally reconnected to my intuition. I realized it's this compass that offers so much value in the treatment setting. When I'm trying to understand what's going on with the patient, where we should turn. And now I'm really just grateful to have that tool. And it's not like I've abandoned objective reasoning, it's just that I bring both to bear.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:04:59) - I know you talk a lot about epigenetics and like, it's so easy for us to be like, oh, my mom was diabetic, so I am too. So fuck it, I'm just going to eat the sugar that I have to eat or whatever. Like, what are you what are you saying to your patients about this? Sort of like, hey, you guys, you have to take accountability and agency like, you can't let all of the shit happen to you like you do. Have some control over it. It's so much easier to just say, fuck it.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:05:26) - It's it's surprisingly controversial. Right? So and this is something I didn't realize until the sort of reckoning that we've been living through for the last year and a half.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:05:33) - But to me, it used to feel like I was making an empowering and hopeful statement to help people realize like, yes, genetics matter, but it's a predisposition. It's not a destiny. And even within genetics, we have epigenetics. And that's where our diet and lifestyle, our stress levels, what we experience and think and go through. Genes are just not the whole story. And we have so much more control than we realize what we eat, how we move, how we sleep, how we manage,, the stress in our lives. All of this has an impact. And I thought I was making a hopeful statement. And what I've come to realize is, well, some of us get really triggered by that because it's overwhelming. And it's a nicer story to tell ourselves of, like, well, it's out of my control. So yeah, easier. And, and then also like to some people comes across as a denial of the structural factors that are making some populations less healthy than others, have less access to good quality food, are under systemic stressors.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:06:29) - And so it's really important to recognize all of this is about. And the structural realities are undeniable. They're very real. That's a part of our health as a population. And it does a disservice to everyone if we don't acknowledge there's still things we can do, things that are inexpensive and accessible, like we can all pause and take 30s to do a breathing exercise. We can all get more sunshine, you know, if that's safe for your, you know, how melanated your skin is., we can all prioritize sleep. It's not always easy for any of us in life.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:06:59) - We all know.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:07:00) - All these things, but so few of us actually do them. Like, how do we going to get from, like, seeing all this, hearing all this, and like actually internalizing it and making it a personal habit, like, what's going to be that leap for us? Is it like a traumatic event? Is it going to be a health scare? Like what is it going to be.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:07:20) - The watered down answer there that you hear a lot is like, well, behavioral change is hard.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:07:25) - So you kind of have to get strategic and smart. What I found was true for me in my life is I had to figure out all the ways that things were addictive to me. And like we have our conventional understanding of what's addictive. Like we understand cigarettes are addictive or heroin is addictive. We understand. But look away from the fact that alcohol is addictive, right? Increasingly, we're tiptoeing out into an awareness of like, phones or addictive. But I had to realize for me, processed food was addictive. Gluten and dairy are actually addictive for me. Certainly sugar,, scrolling on the phone late at night, like all the things that where I was shooting myself in the foot of the goals I said I had, but I set out for myself the reasons I wasn't able to carry those out and make those behavioral changes wasn't lack of motivation, wasn't lack of strategic behavioral change strategies. It was really just that I was addicted to a bunch of behaviors that were standing in the way. So I kind of had to figure out, like, where could I arrive at a place of.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:08:19) - And so I come to a different, more like a freedom kind of relationship with certain things, so that I wasn't always falling into pits of addictive cycles.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:08:28) - I like that. What, in your experience, is considered in that kind of psychedelic stew?

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:08:35) - If I see someone struggling with PTSD, I generally want them to go for MDMA work, or for many of them, actually. Psychedelics like ketamine and psilocybin are also really helpful for trauma. If I have couples that are just stuck, I like them to find an underground MDMA therapist and do that kind of work. If,, if I have somebody who is struggling with depression, struggling to get off of a psych med, that's where I start to think, well, do they want to stay above board and work in the ketamine pathway, or should I refer them for somebody underground for psilocybin work? Or should I recommend that they head to South America and have a proper ayahuasca experience in the jungle? You know, you have to kind of know who are these substances going to most benefit.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:09:18) - And that's where anybody thinking about doing this work would want to talk with a really,, knowledgeable practitioner who has a good sense of what are the real contraindications.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:09:27) - Now in terms of plant medicine and longevity and the brain and aging. Like, what are what is the research showing about that?

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:09:37) - There seems to be a bump in something called BDNF, which stands for brain derived neurotrophic factor, which can make the brain more neuro plastic and can sort of promote neurogenesis. Basically,, it makes our brains able to learn and change, grow and adapt. So this is a good thing. And I think it's a particularly good thing when someone has certain entrenched pattern, whether it's OCD, addiction, melancholic depression, PTSD,, these are all things where shaking the snow globe, so to speak, and letting the dust settle in a new way,, can be really beneficial. It does seem that promoting BDNF is a beneficial thing to do to a brain. And then we of course, see on the other side of that,, people able to have a real lasting benefit to their mood,, or to certain behaviors.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:10:30) - And so let's just say a midlife woman comes to you, she's like, I'm generally, okay, my kids love for college. I'm, you know, kind of bored, dissatisfied. My sex drive and libido, everything is kind of like,, my husband and I are like, kind of not into each other. Like, what are you going to say?

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:10:50) - We would start with the low hanging fruit, get your body healthy, take off the burdens of inflammation and nutrient deficiencies, sort of get somebody really juicy and robust on a physiologic level. And then in terms of relationship satisfaction, I'd want a couple to work on communication. I would want to make sure both people are paying attention to their partner's dreams, their partner's needs coming back to nonviolent communication. And if the relationship isn't meeting, all the needs bust out of all these conventional ideas of what we think our partner should be to us. You know, maybe it's spending more time with friendships. Maybe it's actually opening the marriage in certain ways.

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:11:24) - , and then I do think psychedelics have a role for a lot of people just to reconnect us. And maybe it's 1 or 2 ceremonies, and then what you do is you sing every day, or you dance every day, or you make art, or you go to nature and ground in nature for 45 minutes every few days. But I think there are a lot of ways to reconnect to the glory and the transcendence and this precious gift of what it is to be in a human body, including the suffering.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:11:49) - I want to ask you, Ellen, is there one thing that you want women in life to know about self reinvention and finding our way in the second half of life?

Dr. Ellen Vora (00:11:58) - I think we are systematically cut off from our own divinity, and it impacts how much we let ourselves feel joy, how much we let ourselves be weird and be ourselves, how widely we let ourselves smile, how much we let ourselves honor our own needs. And I think the sooner you can eliminate all the miseducation that our culture has given us and just recognize your own divinity, honor that.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:12:28) - It's me again. Okay, that conversation was so interesting. There is so much out there about plant medicine and magic mushrooms and ayahuasca. And I'm not gonna lie, it can be intimidating and overwhelming, especially on top of all the other medical solutions that we hear about from Western medicine. And then, of course, we can't forget about all the supplements, the water, the exercise, the weight, sleep tracking. We're so lucky to be living in a time where we have all these options. But I know sometimes it can be hard to know well, which is the right one for you. And that's why we were talking about in this golden nugget, Minnesota. One of my biggest takeaways from Allen was just trusting your intuition with the stuff. We don't need to go and try out every single plant medicine. We also don't need to shut them all down either. Taking a holistic approach to your health is about considering the full picture and taking into account your intuition, which Allen reiterates is a big part of the alternative medicine practice.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:13:23) - A lot of what you reference in terms of timing and dosages is about being in tune with your internal guidance system, which can be so different from traditional medical practices that tell you to take a certain dose every day at a certain time. Allen says that we all have this inner knowing or inner force that will guide us all the right answers in life. And a big part of the plant medicine journey is about reconnecting with our inner guides. Midlife ers. Don't worry about digging through your old notes from the amazing information we got today. You can go to my website at the flexible, neurotic.com and search Ellen Vohra. Vohra. And there's a full set of show notes, and you can listen to the full length episode there to stay tuned for more Golden Nugget little episodes that you probably forgot in the midst of midlife parenting teens becoming or maybe already are, an empty nester career and so many other things. There are three things you can do. First, subscribe to the podcast. Second, share it with some friends who like midlife shit.

Dr. Sarah Milken (00:14:24) - And third, write an Apple review. Writing reviews is kind of annoying. It's an extra step, but guess what? It helps the podcast grow. DM me. You know, I always respond. And of course follow my Instagram at the flexible neurotic duh. Love you talk soon.